Waterland - Graham Swift

We met on a cool evening at the Forge to discuss Waterland.  Weather seemed appropriate to the geography of the book.  Doc, Ed, Mike, Phil, Glenn and Clark were in attendance.  As unbelievable as it might seem, we were kicked out of the back room to accommodate a bunch of cheese eaters.  We didn't verify that they were surrender monkeys, but on to the book...

I picked the book on the recommendation of my wife. She had read it in one of her book groups and they had a very good discussion, so I thought, "What do I know about books?  I'll go with this one."  I read a few summaries and it sounded like a brainy who-done-it, so I picked it.

We all commented on the nature of history that was a major subject of the book:

• Hindsight's always 20:20
• A great day for some folks is a real bad day for others
• History is a summation of a lot of individual roles

For Crick, history revolved around his history - his family, the land, the community.  As he grew older he basically abandoned teaching world history - other people's stories - in favor of his own history.  Fishing Eddie Parr out of the lock was the real beginning of that history, and the mystery around that was the central story of the book.  The end of the book with the dredge we thought was symbolic of the digging up of all the past, which led back to the central fact that Dick had killed Eddie.  We talked about the history of the Fens as the people trying to control the uncontrollable - the sea with the locks, the brewery and the Coronation Ale.  A thought I had was that it was good that when I was a youngster, learning about girls et al, it's good that the worst case scenarios didn't play out as in this book.  

There were a bunch of questions we all had in our minds as we talked about the book:

• Eels - other than the sexual symbolism - not so subtle in the girls drawers.  What you thought you knew about eels turned out to not be the case
• Doc had his usual question about magical realism.  He sees magical realism in every closet
• Coronation Ale - what did that stand for?

We all seemed to enjoy the book and did have a pretty good discussion.  The negativity of the book with all it's bad news, insanity, tragedy, etc wore us down after a while.  Comparisons have been made of Swift's writing to Faulkner and Dickens and we all saw that - not so favorably in the case of monster long sentences.

JK's Comment on Zen

First of all my fond regards to all and Jeff, I am sorry I could not visit in person and get the chance to see you.  I hope you have a great trip and that the discussion of this old favorite of mine is lively and fun.

I first read this book as a senior in college at the University of Northern Iowa in 1978.  It was recommended to me by my friend Tom Quade, who remains a great friend to this day.  Tom and I have had many lively discussions over the years – we are opposites in some regards, like politics, but almost brothers in other respects, like spirituality.  As I read the book back then, we often discussed it.  I found it very interesting and thought provoking.  It was a time in my life where I longed for adventure – a longing I would soon fulfill by hitch-hiking all across the country, seeing many states I had never been to, then ending up with my backpack and $60 in my pocket in Central Park in NYC.  I found a place to live, found a job, and pursued my theatre dreams, ultimately founding a small theatre company with four other young artists.  It was a lively and adventurous time in my life.  This book truly informed and shaped me in regard to that adventure – I kept a journal (which I lost years ago – dang!) of my “life on the road,” that summer in large part inspired by the meditations of this book.

I read it again in my early 40’s and found new meaning in the mental and spiritual explorations the author embarks upon.  I saw the central question of the book, “What is good?” (or what is quality?) in a new light as a father of two young children, a husband who had helped his wife through a bout with cancer (who would have known we would engage in that struggle together two more times?) an experienced English teacher who was in graduate school and about to embark on a new career path as an administrator.

What never grows old to me as I read this book is the phantom character of Phaedrus.  For me, it is the act of wrestling with his self-doubts and striving to make sense of all the various incidents and decisions in his life that is resonant.  To one degree or another, I think we all live with and struggle (at least at times) with deep self-doubt.  I know very few people who don’t wrestle with their own personal version of “What is Good,” and also know very few people who can easily resolve the conflicting emotions, thoughts and perspectives that wrestle within us and our changing life circumstances as we strive to be good people, do good work, and reach for meaning in life larger than ourselves.

This is why I always did and still love this book.  I am not a philosopher, and my knowledge of philosophy is limited to the two basic philosophy courses I took way back in undergraduate school.  I do like and have a life-long affinity for what I call “wisdom literature,” some of which might be considered philosophy: “Meditations,” by Marcus Aurelius, “Ecclesiastes,” in the OT, “Man’s Search for Meaning,” by Holocaust survivor Victor Frankl, to name a few.  These are also books or readings that ask pretty much the same question, “What is good?” or “What is a good life?” or perhaps, “What is a well lived life?” 

While not wishing to speak for anyone but myself, I do believe that our lives tend to be messy and don’t always make sense and that clarity is elusive.  This is very true for me.  I live pretty much without regret, but have certainly had more than my share of mistakes, blunders, mis-steps and bouts of general stupidity.  I have hurt or angered people I love, been unkind, made really stupid career moves, etc.  Through it all, I have made an honest effort to be a good person.  To be kind, to be a true friend, to, in the words of the Rotary Motto, “Put service above self.” 

This book provided me less with a roadmap for “What is good?” at a young age and in my middle age than a roadmap for exploring that question in my own life and fueling a desire to strive, always to realize the better angels in my nature and not give up, even when I falter, in my humble, small efforts to live a good life. 

My final thoughts are that a central element of the book is the touching relationship between father and son and the deeply touching nature of the father worrying that his own mental illness and suffering will be repeated in his son.  The irony that Pirsig’s real son Chris, upon whom the character in the book is modeled, was murdered at 23.  At any rate, Pirsig’s love for his son is a powerful element of the book for me.  I really enjoyed a return to a meaningful book in my life.

Cinnamon and Gunpowder

Recently my choices for the Apes has been driven by new authors, or at least authors with fewer works.  I admit to relying on resources to help me with those choices.  See Nihad Sirees and Peter Heller as a couple of sources.  Sirees was discovered on a staff recommendation shelf in Fairhaven, WA, and reaffirmed on an NPR interview.  Heller presented himself so well during an interview and Dog Stars was featured in at least two literary review magazines.  Heller is a local boy, who in this instance, wrote about post-apocalyptic a world without being ham-fisted.  Sirees' work in and about the Middle East, while published originally in 2004, did not hit the market in English until around 2013.  Eli Brown also is a new author.  I found his work highly recommended in a variety of sources.  There are fine, readable new authors in the world.  It may take a little work to dig them up, but they are findable.

What I liked about Cinnamon and Gunpowder was its structure, word choice, time frame, subject matter.  I like a good pirate tale.  Reading about food seems a no-brainer with the Apes. We are blessed with many great cooks in our midst.  The story of a woman pirate is rare, perhaps because there were so few of them and that pirate Mad Hannah Mabbot kidnaps chef Owen Wedgwood from Lord Ramsey.  We understand Ramsey’s relationship with Mad Hannah and the revenge for crimes against humanity seems perfectly meted out as Hannah continues her search for the notorious Brass Fox.  We get glimpses of pirate treatment, pillaging, the opium war, exclusive British trading rights, science (chemistry?) of kitchen work, martial arts, a bit of a love story and a recipe at the end of the book.

Comparisons to Scheherazade are not lost here as Wedge must create a weekly feast for Mad Hannah or perish.  

You will, of a Sunday, cook for me, and me alone, the finest supper. You will neither repeat a dish nor serve foods that are in the slightest degree mundane. In return, I will continue to keep you alive and well... Should you balk in any fashion you will find yourself swimming home, whole or in pieces, depending upon the severity of my disappointment.

I did wonder why Brown chose 1819 to emphasize pirates.  This era is the end of pirating.  Would there be such characters then?  I don’t know, but it made a fine tale.   Doc

Johnny Cash

I'm guessing many of you found the detail of the music business interesting but very tedious.  I found myself skimming the last 400-500 pages, which still left a lot of reading.  It was indeed a fat book.  I tried not to let this get me down, and I think I figured out how to not let it get to me.

I saw JR twice. Once at the Campus Crusade for Christ rally in Dallas in 1972, which was mentioned in the book as the "Christian Woodstock".  I'd guess Woodstock was quite a bit more interesting, but Billy Graham spoke and JR was at the peak of his Gospel Road fame.  I saw him again in the mid-late 70's at an MSU homecoming.  What's not to like about Johnny Cash at a Montana State get together?  

The book provoked a lot of thought about what does it really mean to be a Christian.  I'm sure there are many who would criticize Cash for being a phony Christian, driven by his addictions, marital infidelities, etc; while professing his belief in Christ, singing gospel tunes, and being very outspoken about his faith.  I have no doubt that Cash was a true believer.  While his problems might have been more spectacular/egregious/obvious than my problems (you may disagree), I don't think God cares much about the degree of a person's sinfulness/rebelliousness/etc.  I think Cash as well as most of the believers I know, when they get past their selfishness, truly depend on God's forgiveness, rather than trying to clean up our personal shit.  There are those who would say, "Isn't a changed life evidence of your faith?"  Good question.  I think the answer is yes, but....   At the end of the day, I think Cash depended solely on God for his redemption and that served as a positive take away from the book for me.  

Sorry if this comes across as a bit preachy.  That's certainly not my intention.  I just found myself thinking a lot about what I think are deeper questions while I was trying not to bitch to myself about a ~700 page detailed account of the music business. CM

When I saw the pick, I exhaled, not in joyfulness.  Cash has been in the public eye longer than I've been alive.  His existence under the microscope has been epic.  Truly, nothing about him is new (or newsworthy) in 2014, is it?  This 2013 biography rehashes, in agonizing detail, that which is well documented. To read about the years from the 1980s through his departure from the Columbia label were torture. Hilburn's style, I found to be second rate.  His stories largely gleaned from previous sources, written or documentary. I was reminded of a "review of the literature" thesis. A meta-search, if you will. Anon

The strength of the biography, in way of thinking, was Hilburn's detail of Cash's relationship with Rick Rubin.  And that is perhaps a more fascinating story told through Rubin.  How he was able to massage anything out of the shell that was Johnny Cash.  To take him in the early 2000s to the Viper Room in LA and connect him to a new generation of listeners and to perform at a successful level was remarkable.

I cannot speak regarding Cash's spiritualism to answer whether he was really moved or the master showman willing to "use" any medium to accomplish his desire for attention.  I am reminded of the "five temptations" that our counselor friend reminds us of.  Cash succumbed to them all, repeatedly, in spades. And as one examines the behaviors of others, one is best served by gazing into the mirror. 

Back to the value of the literature.  Old ground, second rate craftsmanship, a lot of volume, weak photo montages, life lessons?  Is there enough here to carry a discussion tonight? I do have Cash on my iPod. So, who's the buffoon? Doc

Boys in The Boat

Read the Boys book; found it interesting and worthwhile to have read. Would not have thought it the 5 star that Amazon indicates.

Some comments below:

Upsides:

The story. The technical aspects of shells, crew rowing, and the historical perspective on Seattle and the Olympics in Germany were interesting.

I was impressed how crew is a sport in which only the team is featured.  There are no real individual performance moments, no home runs, 3 point shots at the buzzer, winning goals by one person, etc.  I guess 

The story was positive, inspiring, a guys overcoming, heroism, patriotic story.

Downsides for me (maybe only me?):

The writing.  For my taste, the book was way too reiterative...e.g. working class guys vs. loafer-wearing rich upper class softies*, the coaches and their competition, Joe's family events (bad and bad), the Cal-UW rivalry, and even the Nazi's totalitarian evil.  Thus the text was too long for this story written in a third person sort of boys adventure/hero/character-building style containing too many hero-esque superlatives re. coaches, boats, characters..this ultimately de-valued these and numbed the reader.  As has been said at other Apes meetings, editor needed**.

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

                             The meeting was convened at or about the hour of 4pm on Saturday the 17^th of January. Our venue was The Forge Publick House and we were attended to by Aiden and Mikala. Jeff was in town from his haunts in Chicago, Clark was celebrating his 65^th and we had a visitor, Joel. Handshakes and hugs for Jeff, a pie for Clark and an introduction from Joel were enjoyed by the attendees. George ,Doc, Clark, Tim, Jeff,Glen, and this writer were present and accounted for.

                              I opened the meeting by describing my history with the book. This book came to my attention in the summer of 1974. I was tending bar at night, working concrete during the day and preparing to depart for the Northwest for law school. Annie was finishing her degree in English at CSU. This was my first reading and I was intrigued  with the idea of “quality” in one’s life. My second reading was some 3 years later on our return to Colorado as a freshly minted young lawyer with much energy and ambition and little real world skill. This reading reinforced for me the concept of “quality” as a goal in work life.

                              I selected the book when I saw a review reminding me this was the 40^th anniversary of ZMM. I reckoned it was a selection that would be met with interest and mixed comment. Such was the case. It seemed that all had read the book and had opinion or at least frustration with Pirsig. Tim brought along a book entitled “ Zen and the Art of Archery” which seemed to be a precursor in thought and title. Glen had read the book in its early days and again found it compelling. George enjoyed. Jeff got through ZMM in his 5^th reading in 5 decades. He seemed to enjoy the travel pieces more than the philosophical knots that were tied and then untied in Pirsig’s attempt to describe “quality”. Now my friend Clark. He gave this book no truck. He commented that the “quality” of Pirsig tied to no quality he experienced in his personal or professional life. I probed him with questions about his boat construction and fly fishing. I whiffed.

                              In this reading I latched on to the author’s description of dealing with frustration and the concept of gumption. Mostly, I first noticed the idea of “Mu”. The older I get the more this is an answer to a question. Not “yes” not “no” but it is the wrong question. It is the wrong inquiry. This reading also was interesting on the heels of the Exley book. Both narrators dealt with intellectual  and emotional demons. Both had paths that led to destruction of interpersonal relationships culminating with electro shock and the aftermath. Too fucking smart for their own thoughts. This book continues to remind me to engage the world below the veneer  and look for quality in the monuments and the mundane.

                                                                                          Let it be so.  ML

A Potter's Notes on Exley's A Fan's Notes

My recent Apes pick, Frederick Exley's A Fan's Notes, was a very personal pick, not an intellectual one or a literary one. I didn't pick it with concern for how it would be received or what there may or may not be to talk about. Maybe I choked with this pick?

I first became aware of Exley and his three novels around 1990 when my mom sent me an announcement of Alexandria Bay's (Exley's upstate NY home) "Frederick Exley Days." Having lived in northern NY from 1967 through 1981, I was surprised I'd never heard of the author nor his works. I first read A Fan's Notes then. I didn't quite get it, but it gave me a few laughs and I remember liking his no holds barred style. Then, maybe last summer or the summer before, I listened to Brock Clarke's Exley, another northern NY novel that centers on a middle schooler's quest to find and bring Exley to his wounded dad who'd been injured in Iraq. Fort Drum NY is a common deployment spot for the US military and has always been part of my ken since moving to Watertown.

Those two encounters with Exley finally led me to say "what the hell, I'll make A Fan's Notes my next Apes pick;" so I did. In 1990, I'd never read a book that geographically covered the landscape of my high school years in Watertown. After my FR night shifts at Hess Gas on Outer Washington St, we'd walk across the parking lot for a beer at the New Parrot (where incidentally my dad stayed on his first house hunting trip to Watertown before our '67 move); I've eaten at the Crystal Restaurant; I've been to the YMCA where Exley lived sometimes, and on and on. This was a book I felt like I'd walked in, sort of like being on a movie set. And Exley's descriptions of its hopelessness and starkness rang true. Dying paper mill towns often have this feel. Think Sometimes a Strange Notion?

I grew up a huge baseball (not football) fan and could appreciate and understand Exley's obsession with Frank Gifford and the NY Football Giants. I went to Hobart ('77-'81) and he nails that campus and feel too. Maybe one has to live the landscape of A Fan's Notes to "get it:" maybe Exley's not very good at drawing outsiders into this northern NY world. Maybe his mental illness and alcoholism clouds everything. I was reminded of these movies: Affliction, Leaving Las Vegas,Barflies. All really stark and depressing, but a slice of life most of us (probably) choose to avoid or ignore. One of my favorite authors, Ray Carver, covers largely the same ground in many of his short stories, but we can step back from Carver's world after a story or two; Exley just keeps on coming at us and coming at us and imho not as eloquently as Carver sometimes does. Not sure if Exley and Carver ever tipped a bottle together, but they're cut from the same literary, life as thinly disguised autobiography cloth.

The novel did not hold up upon my most recent reading, but by then my pick had been made and the Apes list published. I still liked the sense of place and his "I don't give a shit" attitude, but it was too sad, too confusing, too much the disjointed ranting of a sick, hurting, sad, desperate man. He seems to say "here's my life" and really no more. I felt as I re-read that he was begging readers to believe that because he'd written his life down it somehow made it better or less painful. Kind of like Eddie Vedder singing "I hurt, so I'm still alive"  None of it's really shaped or drawn into what we'd expect in a conventional novel. I don't know how it (or its two subsequent and similar novels ever got published; maybe that's the real story!

Stream of consciousness mirroring a life poorly lived? Definitely.  Some great descriptions and humorous one liners? Yup. Worthwhile? Maybe it's just a side of life we'd rather not be reminded of or face.

Your turn boys.

I remain your humble servant,
JP

The Human Stain -- Mike L. and Glenn Toss Their Nickels in

Mike's Take

This book ended up having more pink stickies marking passages than any in my recent reading. There is little doubt that Roth writes with richness and complexity. That being said, my response and view of the characters and story is different than Hal’s. I find Roth to be part of the east coast literati that believe if you admit, confess and blubber about your ill advised decisions and missteps long enough and loud enough that one will be purified in some internal catharsis that you are compelled to share . Updike does the same to me. I think the book was probative to me because it was instructive about how we all bury the parts of our lives that are unsavory and disgusting. None among us is without character flaws that have led to stowing away conduct and behavior. Roth’s writing is sissyfied to me. Phil mentioned “Sometimes an Great Notion” and I thought about the Stampers on the way home.  “Never give an inch” cannot even be seen in the light Roth brings to his characters. As for the cages I view them as self imposed lines in the sand that these characters feared to step across.

Without trying to be a hard ass these folks need to “grow a set”.  I much prefer the writers with the American West ethos—dudes like McGuane, Hemingway and Kerouac for that matter. Take responsibility for your own decisions. It is not what happens to you, it is what you do about it. This is why Roethke and Richard Hugo are some of my favorite poets.

Glenn's Take

A good book and obviously a great pick for the group. Like Mike L, I fess that I too grew frustrated with the hyper analysis, the ostentatious and flamboyant passages (crows). Many seemed self indulgent. "Reader: watch this!"  But there were brilliant, penetrating passages that I would stop, admire, reread, and think that's some of the best writing I've ever read (Hal's examples, for example). And there were some passages that were both over-the-top and brilliant (the Monica/Bill analysis -- he definitely should have f***ed her in the ass).

Roth is brilliant in holding up the mirror to our society, our culture. Often it's an amusement park funny mirror, but he makes his points and gets me thinking, often nodding my head in agreement or sharing his frustration at the nonsense we swim in.  I think Roth really enjoys himself as he writes -- he riffs -- he can really let it fly. He seems to relish wherever the power of his observations, insights, discoveries, the creations, and language take him. There's a winning, undeniable, effusive energy. I really enjoyed the ride.  On the other hand, maybe like Mike L, I didn't care much about the characters' "plights," didn't identify with the way they went about their lives, and didn't take too much of value away from having spent time in their world.

Some additional nonsense: I have only read three Roth books. I read the first in about 1969 (I was in HS). The movie The Graduate was a life event for me and I wanted so much to see another movie that carried me away like that one did. Goodbye, Columbus came out in 68 or 69, and several reviewers compared it to The Graduate (or maybe the newspaper ads did), so I bought the book (very short) and liked it a lot. The movie wasn't anywhere near as good as The Graduate, but it was better than okay. The book The Graduate was a big disappointment, but of course I'd seen the movie first. So, I conclude that President Clinton didn't really think the cigar thing all the way through, and Phillip Roth most definitely did.